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I recently (July 2003) ordered 500-packs of Meister 165 gr and Laser-Cast 170 gr factory-cast bullets to shoot in my 30-30 Model 94 Winchester lever action. I was almost out of wheelweight alloy for casting rifle bullets, and since my buddy and fellow Frugal Outdoorsman writer, Dennis Dezendorf, swears by factory-cast bullets in his .357 service revolver, I decided to give ‘em a try.
The Meister bullets came from Midway USA (Product # 959561) at a cost of $26.98 per 500. The Laser-Cast bullets came from Cabela's (Item # XP-21-3468) at a cost of $22.99 per 500.
- Meister = .054¢ each + shipping.
- Laser-Cast = .045¢ each + shipping.
Both bullets are also available online from the Meister and Laser-Cast web sites. Meister = $20.00 per 500 + shipping; Laser-Cast = $60.00 per 1,000 shipping included. (I'm thinking both bullets are cheaper online.)
Both bullets are hard cast: The Meister web site says, "BRINELL HARDNESS 14-16." The Laser-Cast cardboard shipping box says, "Superior performance at jacketed bullet speeds."
The Meister bullet is boat tailed. The Laser-Cast bullet is heeled for gas check application, but comes, however, sans gas check. For the shooting tests of these bullets, I installed gas checks on the Laser-Cast bullets.
Neither are lubed with plain ol' Alox/beeswax lube. Meister lube = "Rooster" blue. Laser-Cast lube = green. Both the blue Meister and the green Laser-Cast lubes remained non-sticky to the touch in high heat, high humidity Louisiana summer weather, i.e., 96° and damn near raining.
Micrometer readings of each bullet gave the following results:
| Bullet | Meplat Diameter | Nose Diameter | Front Band Diameter | Driving Bands Diameter | Length |
| Meister 165 gr | .200± | .297 | .308 | .309 | .932 |
| Laser-Cast 170 gr | .175± | .292 | .309 | .310 | .953 |
| Notes: (1) Meplat diameters are listed as ± because they were hard to measure accurately. (2) Both bullets have adequate meplats for loading point-to-primer in tubular magazine rifles. (3) The larger meplat of the Meister bullet gives its nose a chubby appearance compared to the more tapered-looking nose of the Laser-Cast bullet. (4) The nose diameters of both bullets look too small for a .300" bore. |
I took 20 random samples from each 500-pack and performed a Standard Deviation analysis with those samples. The results:
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Meister 165 gr 30-30
AV weight = 164.41 grs
ES = 1.1 grs
SD = .252 grs
AV + 1 SD = 164.662 (rounded up = 164.7 grs)
AV - 1 SD = 164.158 (rounded down = 164.1 grs) |
Laser-Cast 170 gr 30-30
AV weight = 164.44 grs
ES = .9 grs
SD = .196 grs
AV + 1 SD = 164.636 (rounded up = 164.7 grs)
AV - 1 SD = 164.244 (rounded down = 164.2 grs) | | Note: I rounded the + 1 and - 1 SD values up and down in order to slightly spread the SD bell curve in both directions, thus increasing its width for sorting by SD and, therefore, saving some marginal but still good bullets. |
The SD of each of the two different 500-packs of bullets computed, I then sorted them ± 1 SD by the quick method described in detail here; thus for each 500-pack I soon had a "Too Heavy Pile," a "Too Light" pile, and a "Good Pile." The results:
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Meister 165 gr 30-30
Too Heavy = 42 >164.7 grs
Too Light = 40 <164.1 grs
Good pile = 418 ≤164.7 grs and ≥164.1 grs
Percent good = 84%
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Laser-Cast 170 gr 30-30
Too Heavy = 55 >164.7 grs
Too Light = 8 <164.2 grs
Good pile = 437 ≤164.7 grs and ≥164.2 grs
Percent good = 87%
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I then individually weighed each of the 145 bullets in the "Too Heavy" and "Too Light" piles and produced a by-weight distribution chart for each brand of bullet. Notes for the charts below:
- Each x is a bullet.
- The SD bell curve is not bell shaped because I didn't individually weight the bullets in the "Good Piles," i.e., the 855 bullets in the ± 1 SD range. So there is actually more bullets toward the center of the ± 1 SD ranges than at the edges.
- The ± 1 SD ranges are shown in red on both charts.
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Meister 165 gr 30-30 by-weight distribution chart Total of 84% or 418/500 bullets from 164.7 grs to 164.1 grs or ± 1 SD. Maximum weight spread = 2.7 grs.
165.2 xxx
165.1 x
165.0 xxxxx xxxxx
164.9 xxxxx xxx
164.8 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx
164.7 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxx
164.6 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx
164.5 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx
164.4 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx 418
164.3 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx
164.2 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx
164.1 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxx
164.0 xxxxx xxx
163.9 xxxxx xxxx
163.8 xxxxx xx
163.7 xxxx
163.6 xxxxx
163.5 x
163.4 xx
163.3 x
163.2
163.1 x
163.0
162.9
162.8
162.7
162.6 x
162.5 x
No visual defects noticed in any Meister bullets.
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Laser-Cast 170 gr 30-30 by-weight distribution chart Total of 87% or 437/500 bullets from 164.7 grs to 164.2 grs or ± 1 SD. Maximum weight spread = 2.3 grs.
165.5 x
165.4
165.3 xxxxx xx
165.2 xxxxx xxx
165.1 xx
165.0 xxxxx xxxxx xx
164.9 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx x
164.8 xxxxx xxxx
164.7 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx
164.6 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxx
164.5 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx 437
164.4 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx
164.3 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxx
164.2 xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx
164.1 xxxxx x
164.0 x
163.9
163.8
163.7
163.6
163.5
163.4
163.3
163.2 x
One small surface void noticed in one Laser-Cast bullet weighing 164.1 grs.
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- The above data show a high level of weight uniformity for both Meister and Laser-Cast bullets. I seriously doubt the average home caster, including this one, could beat that uniformity, especially in batches of 500 bullets.
- The data also show a slight edge in uniformity of the Laser-Cast, but the reader must consider the small sample size of only 20 of 500 bullets. The edge could have easily gone to Meister with one different sample pick from each of the two boxes of 500 bullets.
- The by-weight distribution charts prove the validity of my fast, Too Heavy vs Too Light sort method. They also testify to the need of weight sorting for accurate shooting.
- I can't understand why Meister and Laser-Cast designed their cast 30-30 bullets with such small noses, only .297" and .292" to fit a .300" bore.
- Laser-Cast needs to change the name of their bullet from "170 gr" to "165 gr."
- A slight trace of silver in the Laser-Cast bullet makes it perfect for shooting werewolves, which, as I'm sure you know if you watched B-movies in the 60s, can only be killed with silver bullets.
Shooting results:
I centered a target in the middle of a sheet of 22" x 28" poster paper and placed it at 100 yards distance. The rifle was my Buffalo Bill Commemorative Model 94 30-30 with peep sights, a rifle easily capable of sub 2", 5 shot groups with cast bullets at 100 yards.
The powders used were H4895, H4198, and Varget, all with loads producing muzzle velocities ranging from 1600 fps to 1800 fps.
Meister: best group = 5 shots in 10" using 24 grs H4895. Most 3 and 5 shot groups didn't keep all shots on the poster paper. Almost all bullets hitting the poster paper showed evidence of keyholing with some hitting the paper almost sideways.
Laser-Cast: best group = 5 shots in 4 5/8" using 26 grs H4895. Worst group = 9 3/4". Average of several 3 and 5 shot groups = 6.4". Some bullet holes showed evidence of slight keyholing, i.,e., oval-shaped holes.
Conclusions: despite their high level of weight uniformity, both bullets are best left to their intended purpose of short range Cowboy Action shooting.
After publishing this article the thought struck me that maybe a faster burning powder might obtrude the
too-small noses of these bullets and give better 100 yard accuracy. I tried Alliant 2400 as I had a can on hand.
The Meister still failed to perform. A 3 shot, 100 yard group measured 21 1/2" and evidenced oval bullet holes. However, a 3 shot, 25 yard group measured 1" and evidenced round bullet holes. Something happened to the bullets between 25 and 100 yards. Curiously, while trying to adjust my sighting on the target so the Meister bullets would at least hit the backing board, I fired 5 rounds through my Chrony and obtained amazing results. The charge was 16.7 grs 2400, i.e., the 1.3 cc Lee Dipper.
Round #1 = 1789 fps
Round #2 = 1790 fps
Round #3 = 1791 fps
Round #4 = 1789 fps
Round #5 = 1787 fps
Av = 1789 fps; ES = 4; SD = 1.3
That is the most uniform 5 shot group I've ever sent through a chronograph. And the load shot about 2 foot groups at 100 yards.
The Meister bullet at over 1750 fps average velocity leaded my barrel.
The Laser-Cast bullet performed well with 2400 powder. I installed a gas check on the base and seated it in my Lyman 450 Sizer-Lubricator using a .310" die. The sizer also put Alox stick lube in the bullet's crimping groove and in the tiny groove above the crimped-on gas check. Each bullet contained the normal Laser-Cast green lube with a little added Alox stick lube.
I shot 5 groups of 5 shots using 2400 powder and with velocities from 1600 fps to 1900 fps. They averaged 3 1/2" with a low of 2 5/8" and a high of 5 1/8".
The Laser-Cast bullet at velocities over 1750 fps leaded my barrel.
Here's the Chrony data for a group with Laser-Cast bullets and 16.7 grs 2400, i.e., the 1.3 cc Lee Dipper.
Round #1 = error
Round #2 = 1792 fps
Round #3 = 1817 fps
Round #4 = 1781 fps
Round #5 = 1791 fps
Av = 1795 fps; ES = 36; SD = 15
Group size = 2 5/8" (and leaded barrel)
New Conclusion: using fast burning powder and adding a gas check, the Laser-Cast bullet makes a fine plinking round and a good 100 yard deer and hog round—if it doesn't lead your barrel at the velocities required for 100 yard accuracy.
Copyright 2003 by Junior Doughty
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